#003 – Kubernetes For Humans Podcast with Sebastian Kister (Audi)

Itiel Shwartz: Welcome to the Kubernetes for Humans Podcast. I’m Itiel, the CTO of Komodor, and today I’m excited to speak with Sebastian Kister from Audi. Sebastian is an award-winning global thought leader in enterprise transformation and a CTO Summit member at CNCF. He’s also a startup professional who has helped shape products from their genesis to market leadership using bleeding-edge technology. Welcome, Sebastian!

Sebastian Kister: Thanks, Itiel. It’s great to be here.

Itiel Shwartz: Let’s start with a big question. What do you think will be very different in terms of DevOps in the years to come?

Sebastian Kister: That’s a great question. The future of DevOps is something that will definitely vary between enterprises and smaller companies. “You build it, you run it” is becoming increasingly difficult in large-scale environments. DevOps is great for research tasks, for trying out something new in labs, or for adapting bleeding-edge technology. But when it comes to large enterprises like Audi, with 6,600 applications, having everything DevOps would be overkill. We wouldn’t be building cars anymore; we’d be managing applications.

Itiel Shwartz: That’s a significant point. How do you balance that within Audi?

Sebastian Kister: It’s about specialization. We don’t have 13,000 developers or 6,000 security experts. So, in a big enterprise, the future is driven by the necessity of having a knowledge-sharing layer, an enablement layer, and some standards. But beyond that, it’s crucial to focus on interface security rather than on strict policies that aren’t applicable to everyone. Infrastructure layering is also critical, especially when it comes to using cloud services.

Itiel Shwartz: Can you elaborate on that?

Sebastian Kister: Sure. We have a cloud foundation at Audi that provides shared compute resources across all projects. But I won’t resell an AWS service if it compromises security. For us, it’s about 100% secure runtime. If something is 99.9% secure, it’s already a special interest, not a general one. For example, if we have 30 platforms, and each one is doing its own container image scanning, then we’d need 30 people to maintain that. It doesn’t make sense. So, our focus in the next five years is to decentralize platform services and create a secure runtime use case that everyone can rely on. On top of that, we can build business integration layers or domain-specific platforms.

Itiel Shwartz: It sounds like you’re centralizing certain aspects to ensure consistency but still allowing flexibility where it’s needed.

Sebastian Kister: Exactly. For instance, our cloud platform isn’t just one platform—it’s many. And it’s not just about public cloud; we have on-premise platforms too. Some projects need to connect to on-premise systems to process data. The use cases are so diverse that decentralization of platform services becomes essential. This approach prevents redundancy and inefficiency.

Itiel Shwartz: Let’s switch gears a bit. Earlier, you mentioned some interesting personal interests. Can you tell us more about them?

Sebastian Kister: Absolutely! For me, life quality is about three things: good drinks, good food, and good company. I’m really into high-quality beverages, so much so that I started my own spirits company because I couldn’t find what I wanted on the market. If I could buy it at a better quality, I wouldn’t need to make it myself. But that wasn’t the case, so I took matters into my own hands.

Itiel Shwartz: That’s fascinating! How does this relate to your work in IT?

Sebastian Kister: It’s a lot like the “buy vs. build” decision in IT. If you can buy something that’s of excellent quality, there’s no need to build it yourself. But if what’s available doesn’t meet your standards, then you build it. In my case, I’m sensitive to low-quality alcohol, so I started making my own spirits. The same principle applies to technology decisions at Audi.

Itiel Shwartz: You also mentioned you were a musician. Can you tell us more about that?

Sebastian Kister: Yes, I started out as a musician, playing Renaissance music and metal. The last festival I played was in 2015. It was an amazing experience, but eventually, I had to shift focus. These days, I channel that creativity into my work in technology.

Itiel Shwartz: It sounds like you’ve had quite a journey, from music to technology. How do you see the connection between these fields?

Sebastian Kister: There’s a lot of creativity in both fields. Whether it’s composing music or solving complex IT challenges, it’s about striving for excellence and pushing boundaries. That’s something I bring into my work every day.

Itiel Shwartz: We have a question from the audience. A wise man once said, “When you do transformation, people first; people solve problems. When you do it process first, people start to spy.” What does this mean to you?

Sebastian Kister: That’s a quote that really resonates with me. Often, enterprises focus too much on processes and forget about the people who actually solve the problems. Processes can become rigid and fail to adapt to changing conditions. But if you focus on the people, give them the responsibility, and trust them to solve problems, they’ll choose the best tools and approaches. This is especially true in IT, where flexibility and innovation are crucial. Processes should evolve from the solutions people create, not the other way around.

Itiel Shwartz: That’s a powerful insight. As we wrap up, any final thoughts you’d like to share?

Sebastian Kister: Just that it’s been great discussing these topics with you, Itiel. I think the future of IT is bright as long as we stay focused on people, innovation, and quality—whether it’s in technology or in a good drink!

Itiel Shwartz: Thank you, Sebastian. It’s been a pleasure having you on the podcast. I’m sure our listeners have learned a lot from your experiences.

Sebastian Kister: Thank you, Itiel. It was a pleasure being here.

Itiel Shwartz: And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. We hope you enjoyed this episode of the Kubernetes for Humans Podcast. See you next time!

Sebastian Kister is an award-winning global thought leader for enterprise transformation and a CTO Summit member at CNCF. He is a startup professional who helped to shape products from genesis to market leader with bleeding-edge technology. Always striving to innovate and question the status quo, he helps to break dogmas, implement a new culture, and never settles while pursuing constant progress. Currently, he is leading a competence center in IT infrastructure and aligning all brands in the VW Group with the mission to once again boldly go where no one has gone before. 

Itiel Shwartz is CTO and co-founder of Komodor, a company building the next-gen Kubernetes management platform for Engineers.

Worked at eBay, Forter, and Rookout as the first developer.

Backend & Infra developer turned ‘DevOps’, an avid public speaker who loves talking about infrastructure, Kubernetes, Python observability, and the evolution of R&D culture.  He is also the host of the Kubernetes for Humans Podcast. 

This is an AI generated transcript of the conversation