Komodor’s own Marino Wijay and other community members share insights from KubeCon EU 2024, exploring the latest developments in cloud-native technology and their experiences. Marino and the team will be having discussions on emerging trends, innovative solutions, and more in this engaging session.
The following is an AI-generated transcript of the session:
0:10[Music]
0:24all right uh hey everyone thanks for joining uh in this uh nice little webinar we have have uh a lot of uh nice
0:32friends from cucon and uh it’s it was it was quite quite an event it was if you
0:39don’t already know the biggest cubec con yet not just Europe but like worldwide
0:45and uh it was uh truly a great great experience and um I think more than
0:5112,000 people uh 134 but we’re going to wait for the report to come out uh but
0:57yeah it was uh from what I heard the biggest and not just from what I heard from what I felt as well was like the
1:04the biggest Cube con yet but uh we have some nice people joining us today from the community um let’s uh do some some
1:12intros um maybe Duffy you would like to go first all right hey everybody I’m Duffy KY I’m Maui Lon everywhere I work
1:19as a field CTO at is surveillant and I’ve been involved in the kubernetes community for a long time and I agree with you like the energy at that show
1:25was was amazing like it was like in the past and like other European events we’ve definitely seen where like when
1:32the Halls were full then the show floor would be empty and when the show floor was full then the Halls would be empty
1:38this time it was full in every Dimension like there was lines going out of every talk like it was
1:46insane yeah I think I can go next so my name is Nila I work at defal at Piper plane and yeah I have to say uh well
1:54energy wise people wise was wild but also really good um and I’m Happ to be
2:00here on the show and like it’s also helping me against against the cucn blues a little bit today because they’re
2:06coming from I don’t know over 10,000 people back to zero also can feel quite
2:14lonely hey my name is Adriana valela I’m a developer Advocate at service now
2:19Cloud observability um the artist formerly known as light step um yeah I’m
2:25uh I’m definitely feeling some Cube conon Blues especially getting to spend in Paris and then flying back to boring
2:32old Toronto so um it’s been it it was a total blast like it I think this is like
2:38my fourth or fifth cucon and like wow it just gets better and better every
2:45time hey everybody Andrew here uh Dev at Dev cycle um so yeah I gotta say uh so
2:51North America was my fir like this past North America in Chicago is my first Cube conon ever and so going in it was
2:59like expecting kind of that same level of energy which was awesome but but yeah showing up and like day one you just
3:06knew that you were in this like totally new space this totally new energy like
3:11uh Chicago I got the chance to go and check out a lot of talks and other booze just because there was some downtime
3:16there no opport I didn’t leave I didn’t leave the um the expo hall the entire time just because there were so many
3:22people coming around it was so so so fantastic like I couldn’t believe how amazing the energy was in that space
3:30hi I’m Whitney Lee and uh I work at tanzu vmore tono I’m a developer
3:36Advocate and I noticed the energy change at Day Zero actually first of all I want to say I love how they change day zero
3:44day Zero used to be like you have to pay extra you sign up for only one track
3:49like I’m only here for Argo day I’m only here for Prometheus con or whatever and you were stuck in that room all day and
3:56this time it was an all-inclusive thing so every can go to Day Zero and you could hop around from track to track so
4:03already like huge Improvement I could see super big energy and then every room
4:08during day Zero had um vendor tables outside each door and my so my first
4:13inkling that this was going to be a different Cube conon was that those vendor tables had really long lines and
4:19I would ask people like at the end of the line what are you waiting in line for and they’re like for a T-shirt and I
4:25was like wow that works that’s cool um I have a question but maybe I’ll
4:32save it I’m going to ask it now but uh someone down the line can maybe like so there’s a lot of talk about AI
4:39especially during the opening Keynotes my question is what’s the difference between Ai and ml I don’t have a good
4:46understanding of that I can I can take that one really quick uh okay after do
4:52everyone the intro yeah Maro you go next and then Phillip my heart is beating so fast
4:58because I’m like seeing all my friends after a long time and it’s only been seven days so my name is Marino wi I am a
5:06Solutions engineer at Commodore uh this coupon was a little different for me because normally I’m there for the
5:12entire event and this one I just blew in for the Tuesday for the main event and I
5:17was mostly at the booth so I I I heard a lot of interesting conversations I had some great chats uh the common problem
5:24is around we’re we’re using kubernetes what’s next and interesting to hear that
5:30but there’s also another pattern that I noticed as well one thing I will call out is that my first I’ll take my
5:36glasses off my first cucon was 2019 in San Diego and when I first stepped into
5:41that room it wasn’t that big like that cucon was so different than what it is today yeah it felt very very Community
5:49like and I say that because it was smaller right you could reach out to people you could actually have conversations there wasn’t a lot of
5:55noise all over the place and you didn’t have to like raise your voice so much and to see that like grow into what it
6:02is today is phenomenal so really excited to see where ccon is um or where it’s
6:07going and yeah let’s chat so hi guys my name is Phillip one
6:14of the co-founders of class Cube and it was actually my very first cubec con so
6:19like hearing your your opinions it I probably think that the buy is super super high like also for every other conference I may ever ever attend but
6:27yeah as it was like my first Cube con it was like like really overwhelming like first having like the cloud native f
6:32with all the tracks and still like prioritizing talking with a lot of people like you guys or listening to
6:38some super interesting talks are still like going around the booth and yeah we can talk a lot about that but yeah so
6:46many experience to to to really like process and yeah lot of stuff to to
6:51follow up on but it really really awesome what an amazing year for a first cubec con that
6:57would be like oh yeah wow definitely because we’re like being
7:03from Europe we based in Vienna so it was really like a short flight so we had to do
7:11it so can do you want to answer the ml AI question I want to hear your Pi yeah
7:17good uh good reminder by Whitney like for people who were not at Cube con Ai and ml everywhere I I knew it was going
7:25to be like there was a little bit like that in the in the past cucon we saw quite a people few people um I’m hearing
7:34some yeah if someone someone okay and now now it’s good by
7:40the way nice mic Whitney I had the same one but it was too distracting so I had to get rid of it it matches my board
7:47yeah yeah but uh yeah AIML uh definitely
7:53the Highlight uh for for for everyone at cubec coners it was everywhere Keynotes
7:58startups and uh yeah a lot of lot of other ways but uh quickly I’ll answer
8:03the AI versus ml question um it’s it’s not it’s not like this or that so for
8:09example we all know what AI is in simple language if you explain it to a five-year-old like you know Terminator
8:15and CI you know all sorts of things your face unlock your iPhone that’s all AI so
8:22machines trying to may make human behavior in simple terms right machine learning is how AI does that so machine
8:29learning you can say is a subset of AI so AI inside that machine learning and
8:35in that you can get like other things you know like um uh reinforcement learning so types of machine learning
8:41models um so machine learning is a subset of ai ai is like in simple terms
8:47uh trying to mimic human behavior machines trying to mimic human behavior machine learning as the name suggests
8:52is teaching the machines how to do it so it’s it’s like all that process so is AI
8:58like an an interface for the outcomes of machine learning you you can say that it’s like
9:06uh if you have a box of crayons and you have a robot and you’re like you should you should paint some
9:12pictures and then you show the robot a picture and you’re like this is how you should paint it you know using the
9:18Crayons so you’re actually making the person like the the machine learn how you want to do that tasks and AI is like
9:25the whole broader ecosystem that has the learning part in it
9:31so so that’s what ml is all about like you have different types of data and
9:36then you have to figure out out what sort of algorithm to use for which type of data so that I can build my smart
9:43product or whatever new webinar on ML next next
9:50week all right uh let’s talk about thanks for the question withney I’m sure many people had that question because
9:56you know it was all over cucon so I think good good starting point but what were everyone thoughts around the
10:01significant announcements and developments developments at this cubec Con and how do you think that attending
10:08this event and from what we heard is going to impact the broader cuetes ecosystem um Whitney do you want to go
10:15because you were already I’ll say I um I’ll say that I actually didn’t I felt
10:22so I’m I’m not that into AI I mean I I’m sure it’s great I just don’t know much about it clearly and so the fact that
10:29the opening Keynotes had like literally everyone was about AI I actually didn’t
10:35like that like I felt like it kind of alienated the community it made me ask myself like who are the Keynotes even
10:40for are they for VCS like ventro capist and end users are they for the people
10:46who are behind the scenes doing the work because we’re not all using it’s like AI some AI That’s great but every single
10:52one AI I didn’t appreciate but that’s uh yeah I’d like to hear people’s take on
10:58that I agree with that sentiment I was actually surprised by the amount of amount of that showing up in the first
11:04few in the first day I did feel like it got better over time though like the Keynotes that I saw in the in the subsequent days were were a little more
11:10aligned and I really liked Solomon’s point in his keynote where he was like you know at some point uh it’s going to
11:16come down to the fact that like it when we deal with AI we still have to like those of us with our hands on platforms
11:22still have to figure out how to use these tools right we still have to figure out how to deliver those things we still have to host them and I thought
11:28that was a really good moment to kind of bring the bring the narrative together a little bit you know there was an
11:33interesting stat something along the lines of um of all the people like many many people developing AI prototypes but
11:39maybe only 30% of those people able able to take it to production so that’s a problem that that they were interested
11:45in solving from the keynote stage at least yeah it’s interesting stuff I
11:51would say also this cucon for me was a a lot of reflection and a lot of uh kind
11:57of um reun right like it was it was fascinating to me how many people from previous
12:03companies that I had worked at uh were here like there were a ton of K people including um a really interesting
12:09fireside chat between Kelsey high tower and Alex py from Kos right and it was
12:14this really amazing moment where like the two of them have such an appreciation for each other and everybody else in the room has such an
12:20appreciation for the impact that these two people have had on the KU ecosystem
12:25right it was just this so there was it just kept getting reinforced like even before the show at things like rejects
12:32right where there was just so many so many people like that were coming back to the community who had been away for a
12:39little while and there were so many and and there were so many narratives around hey it’s 10 years like you know let’s
12:45actually take a moment and reflect on 10 years of kuber NZ right like that’s kind of an amazing an amazing through line
12:52for me throughout the entire throughout the show yeah I definitely agree with the reunion theme um like my my cubec
12:59con was in 2022 in Detroit and I came in like it was my first deil role and it was my first cubec con and I didn’t know
13:06anybody and I was like mortified and and then like you know
13:11fast forward to this one and there’s like so many people I know from just working in in open source and and just
13:18interacting in various ways and you know and and you can’t even get to everybody right um you want to say hello to all
13:25the people but you’re lucky if you get to 10% now because there’s just so many people so I I I really love the people
13:31aspect of it just getting to catch up and and there like often times there like your cubec con friends these are
13:37the people you see only at cubon and it’s kind of cool because in some ways it’s like time hasn’t
13:43passed yeah I found I found it so interesting I ran into Marino on the final day and another fellow Canadian
13:50Dev um and I was like man we got to travel all the way to Europe to see our like fellow our fellow Canadian folks
13:57that are doing this which was kind of awesome but um it really was like it was that challenging piece there was so many
14:04amazing things going on so much fun being had um yeah I think that I think
14:09that there’s there’s something there about being able to to kind of go to these amazing places to connect with
14:15these these folks and to extend your network right to like build that Community even more I I had so many I
14:21have so many invites in Europe to go and grab a beer now um with folks that just kind of came around and said hey I love
14:26what you’re doing sounds amazing like let’s connect again down the line and I think that’s that’s a unique thing about
14:32this this community I think Marino said it right like it started out as this small thing a few years ago and now it’s
14:38big but it still holds that Community like that very it’s almost as though you just like took this tiny little like
14:45hackathon Meetup and then just scaled it up exponentially and it just doesn’t lose that energy which is so
14:51cool yeah and also like uh one I don’t know if it’s like good
14:58problem to have because of the scale of the event I just um I find it hard to
15:03just sit down with people and talk um that is something that I struggled with with cucon um so so many
15:12people I wanted to meet but I saw raw Cod like once said hi 5 seconds and then he just we we both went you know either
15:20ways and then I I didn’t see him at all um and I wanted to talk to him so rock
15:26code if you’re watching um but uh but yeah and just my last Point around AI it’s not just at
15:33cucon how many AI meetups were running on the side of cucon like
15:39outside the event so many meetups and After parties um as well um yeah and
15:46also um speaking of AI I think um Nvidia is currently running the show
15:53when it comes to gpus and Andi chips so that was another another high
15:59the it was Prim the the the keynote was uh primarily a hardware and infrastructure play so
16:07uh there was some nice um response from the community but in terms of like um
16:14the leading market cap for gpus yeah it’s Nvidia right now yeah I mean definitely um but what I
16:23also saw is like there now like really cncf incubating projects that really focus on running this ml workloads on
16:29kubernetes like I think Cube flow they had a little boo at the cncf and projects and talking to these guys and
16:36how they solving these kind of problems are really really fascinating because like kubernetes is not only a tool for a
16:44super geeky DeVos Engineers but like Branch it out to other other like departments and and use cases like ML
16:52and like Ai and I really love it how how these kind of works now can also be like
16:58Incorporated into into kubernetes with these cncf projects like Cube flow so
17:03awesome to talk to these guys to like build the bridge yeah um so I mean like there’s
17:11lots of awesome AI stuff um but I mean just kind of Switching gears because I know AI is taking a lot of space um kind
17:17of in this world right now um there were some really interesting announcements around education initiatives in the
17:22space this time too like a lot more certifications a lot more training courses and supported um supported
17:28programs content areas so I love that sort of we had this big push for AI and I think that’s amazing and it brings
17:34people into the conference right because everybody’s interest in the topic right now but I think there’s now a lot of effort being put into like okay this is
17:41a complicated ecosystem there’s so much going on it’s constantly evolving and so now there’s all this work that’s being
17:47done sort of from the cncf down and like the the community up to create these
17:52really really great certification Pathways but then just general education pieces which I think is um going to be
17:58the thing that brings this this sort of space into more of the the public awareness and Sphere for
18:07sure um on on the similar track of um you know non non-ai announcements um
18:13open Telemetry made an announcement that it’s applying for graduation which was super exciting um open Telemetry is near
18:21and dear to my heart because I I work um I work on that project I’m part of the end user working group and um also like
18:28it as part of the announcement it’s wild to see how much stuff is required for
18:33cncf graduation like there’s like all these Audits and stuff so it really gives you an appreciation for all the
18:40hard work that goes um on behind the scenes for these types of things it’s not just like a willy-nilly decision
18:47it’s a it’s a very like wellth thought out process so um yeah it’s it’s kind of cool to to highlight that that sort of
18:54thing and and also like I I think it it speaks to like open Telemetry having evolved so over the last several years I
19:00I think it started in like 2019 and and now it’s got like so much support from so many of the observability vendors out
19:07there that it’s like you a lot of vendors are ingesting open Telemetry um natively which is super awesome and I at
19:14least last year I think it was the second most contributed project behind kubernetes so I think it speaks volumes
19:20about the project so I really want to highlight that yeah glad that you do that because
19:26for me that was also kind of a highlight to see that that open Telemetry will um apply for graduation and um I’m not uh
19:34directly involved in the project but I’m also in the observability space so it’s really good to see how far it gets I was
19:40also quite excited to see that jager will have uh the version 2.0 um soon and
19:45they will have some Kafka um support coming in there and also better um better C or not collaboration but like a
19:53more native way with the otel collector and that’s quite exciting to see so we see that all the things about open
19:58Telemetry are are catching up um and that was really really nice to see and
20:03Andrew on the other side uh you also mentioned something like that we have those more education stuff because
20:09things are so complex right I also feel something I’m coming uh from a background with application Engineers I
20:15also feel that this gets more space in the cncf which makes me personally super happy to see that we talk about the
20:21inner and outer developer Loop and how we can make those tools like this whole ecosystem more accessible to devel Vel
20:28opers when they develop applications um and that was also quite amazing to see um with tools like Dapper uh test
20:35containers dager all of those um and I hope that we keep doing this in the next
20:41versions as well regarding those education initiatives I noticed on the
20:47conf on the show floor that there was like a whole area dedicated to learning and to getting those certifications and
20:53they also rolled out a program called Cub stauts did y all see that so it’s I
20:59think it’s pretty cool it’s like a title you can get if you get all of the certifications so if you get cka cka a d
21:06uh I’ve pulled it up K cks kcna and kcsa then you can call yourself a cubsta
21:14which uh seems pretty um impressive honestly you also get a cool jacket yeah
21:22you also get a cool jacket um but no it’s it’s interesting uh lot of lot of
21:28thoughts you know around cubec con and um there was also like when we’re talking about uh when I used to attend
21:34cubec Con in the past right and I I had we had all these vendors we had all these um attendees um I I spoke to them
21:43and I was like uh you’re at Cube corner you using kubernetes and people like uh
21:48no no we’re not um why not it’s too complex or just not don’t have the team
21:53or whatever and now I think uh the same thing is happening with the yeah I met so many companies who the the the the
22:01the leadership people are like sort of like encouraging them to to embrace it which is which is fine but they’re only
22:07doing it in a in a demo environment like running experiments right now and uh and
22:13not really having it you know in in production so it’s it’s interesting to see I’m excited for cucon next year to
22:21see how much of the AI adoption has taken place um but no this is
22:26interesting and um the let’s let’s move forward I want to talk about there was another another keyn note on um um
22:33sustainability right um think it was called responsible Innovation is what they used and uh obviously cncf you know
22:40promoted the landscape and their own projects as well which is a bit funny because that same day red redis changed
22:47their license uh which which was interesting to see um but what are your
22:52thoughts around uh responsible Innovation when we talk about sustainability uh y key takeaways and
23:00because you know gpus like the new Nvidia chips they are they they take some power
23:06yeah I think there was an interesting talk following up on this from Leonard Parker about the energy consumption and
23:13what you can do in terms of um sustainability um mentioning Kepler but
23:18also the potential to um combine it with ebpf I think that’s a really nice presentation to watch and I like this
23:25one point that he said he said like we feel really detached from the Hardware because we all work with apis um so for
23:31us sometimes it’s really hard to understand how much energy do we consum but like also not just talking in the
23:38open source way about uh sustainability but also like on an energy level I found that really interesting and um yeah I
23:44like this talk a lot actually so that’s why I wanted to mention it yeah we saw a lot of really
23:51interesting stuff around EF and it’s it’s super super awesome to see that like getting more widely adopted more
23:57projects are actually starting to move toward toward it to to for just better abstractions in the colonel and those sorts of things I have I do have a
24:03question I’m curious like what people think about this but like watching the hype cycle around Ai and also watching
24:09like two different companies out there really pushing a lot of the efforts around uh web assembly I wonder which we
24:15will see like more people actually adopting in production like whether it’ll be wom assembly first or will it be AI first like right now it’s kind of
24:22hard to see I think there’s at such different points in the hyp ccle like right now it
24:29feels like it’s got to be AI because everyone is talking about AI but I’m wm’s probably get web assembly is
24:35probably getting to the point where it’s actually stable and and used and there’s some standardization around it and it’s
24:41a it would be a better choice but it’s definitely I didn’t hear as much about
24:46it I feel like the wasum and the high point of the wasum hype cycle happened
24:52last year yeah to your to your point though it is a challenging technology because
24:57it is such a C technology so like being able to you know use it in production means like frequently means changing
25:04your app or limiting your the the access that your app actually has to the the kernel and lots of other and lots of
25:10other ways which makes it hard to like just you know you can’t just like pick up a container and make it a wassom b r
25:16like you have to actually like do do a bit more work there so the adoption part is definitely slower I think for web
25:22assembly than being able to sprinkle Ai and stuff but um it’s it’s an interesting time for
25:29sure that’s a good description Duffy sprinkling Ai and stuff I think it’s so
25:36true on a on a slightly diff oh sorry I was just gonna say on a slightly different sustainability note not
25:42necessarily on like the energy sustainability side but on like the community and how that works in
25:47sustainability when when things change on the financial side I don’t know if anybody saw sort of the announce obviously the announcement about wee
25:53works and flux CD a little while ago and I think there was a lot of fear in the community and I saw an announcement that
25:58came out on LinkedIn um around uh around the fact that the flux project like now
26:04that weave Works has kind of shifted now has such an extensive company representation on the key maintainers
26:10list now and I feel like this is such an interesting angle right if you look at kind of the two sides of the sustainability coin we’ve got like
26:16sustainability for the world and sustainability in like this kind of a market and I think cubec con is kind of
26:22like or the or the CN the the the cloud native Community itself has really sort of shown that like it’s focused on one
26:28and it’s it’s really able to deliver on that kind of community taking over these projects when when things shift which I
26:34think was such a a really cool thing to to come out of of not a great situation for weav Works obviously but I’m glad
26:40flux is still gonna have some folks supporting
26:46it yeah I got I got to spend the time I got to spend a little bit of time with Stefan and it was it was it was neat
26:51that he was you could tell he was actually like dropping a lot of the stress around all of that because like
26:57when he when when we when that imploded he went to a control plane and now he’s working at control plane working on flux
27:04but to see the community response and have and have like people who are going to actually be contributors and and uh
27:11and maintainers of the project that weren’t just him was a great relief I’m
27:17sure yeah and the in the keynote it was also mentioned the spin Cube was um you
27:23know was announced and uh I think after the keynote when I spoke to people were looking like um they were like this is
27:30all cool and everything and um they they’re just trying to explain if they have a very nice use
27:38case to to convince with the know so if if you talk about platform engineering like let’s let’s talk about platform
27:44engineering the the biggest challenge is um you know from what from from what I
27:50spoke to people was convincing the the company for this shift you know this
27:56cultural shift that’s like the biggest challenge with platform engineering I’m happy to you know interested to hear
28:02your thoughts maybe Marina you have to say something or yeah people is definitely the hardest part of the
28:07puzzle for sure M muted muted muted damn it see this is why I don’t double mute I
28:12this is why I leave one muted in the other one unmuted so this is my time all right so one thing I’ve noticed in the
28:19last six months is a lot of consolidation and consolidation is good
28:24because now we start to see the real key tools that make impact that drive
28:31outcomes but we also start to see the stitching of these tools right all of these tools are working together and
28:38working together in an interrelated sense right like there’s a problem there’s smaller sets of problems and all
28:44of these tools put together solve this problem what that’s led to is I see I’ve
28:49seen a lot of vendors that have come out and say that we are a platform and I
28:55wonder like what does that truly mean like if you are a platform are you talking about five different things that
29:01are not related to each other that you’re solving or are they solving the the same problem together and I’m
29:07sitting here trying to wrestle with who’s actually offering a true platform is it an API is it a CLI is it a UI is
29:14it all in one uh is it solving multiple areas is it is it like gcp is it AWS
29:21what are we talking about here when we’re talking about platforms um so what we’re what what I think we’re going to
29:27start to see even up until the next cucon is more of that consolidation and the true platform players we’re going to
29:34see much more definitive definition of what platform engineering truly is and I
29:40I’m seeing two sides to this coin right there’s the app developer side which I think was reflected in app developer con
29:46alongside platform engineering dat they’re two sides to the same coin and we’re going to see that convergence very
29:51soon but what’s really cool is if you so last year in
29:57Chicago I noticed that all of the open source projects were like kind of off to the side they didn’t have a lot of
30:02attention and it felt like they were just I don’t know I don’t know how to explain it but this time around it felt
30:09like there was a lot more emphasis on these open- Source projects like they were front and center
30:15the moment you kind of walked into the show floor or the Expo floor and that to me meant that you know while it well
30:22it’s not directly related to platform engineering it means that there is a strong emphasis there’s a strong desire to can continue to drive the innovation
30:29in these open source Technologies and also Foster that collaboration because
30:34they’re all together and then you also see like each one of these individuals are working multiple projects so there
30:41is that collaboration going on um and so that is going to drive a lot of that consolidation which is going to see us
30:48like look at more platform engineering Solutions or platform Life Solutions the last thing I’ll say is I think s syum
30:55stole the show and and I’m only saying that Duffy because one I’m a big fan of selum networking but two every
31:01conversation I’ve had uh over those last three days when I was at ccon was about psyllium we’re doing something with
31:08psyllium whether it’s service mesh whether it’s straight up you know cni networking whether they’re doing some
31:13Edge compute related stuff so really excited to see where this goes yeah I was you know I was coming
31:20into this cucon a little worried because I wasn’t sure what the sentiment would be around the acquisition of is
31:25surveillant into Cisco because in the past I mean I know that we’ve all had
31:31that worry of like Well Company being acquired by big company what’s going to happen with the project and what I saw
31:36was a big huge vote of confidence by everyone saying look we know you got this we know that you’re going to go be
31:42a part of Cisco and that you’re going to continue maintaining this project you’re going to continue engaging in the
31:47community in the open source place and it really felt it was a really warming experience you know because it was like
31:53like that’s how we’re thinking about it but to have so such a big part of the community also basically resonate that
31:59back to us was was a huge was a huge plus one for that right but I agree like if we’re not talking about it everybody
32:05else is it’s wild like it’s a totally great example of of like what what is
32:11important in platform engineering of solving real problems for for for a lot of those
32:16environments I I have a lot to say so I’m just going to dig in so I
32:22host a show called you choose and in every episode we do a system design choice and we go through all the cncf
32:29projects that can do that choice and we’re on we’ve been doing it over a year and we’re honestly not that far through
32:34the cncf maybe we’ve touched 50 projects maybe 15 different system design choices
32:40and what’s increasingly clear as I go through the show it’s not reasonable to
32:46ask people to navigate this on their own especially in this like devops like shift left mentality when this was
32:52falling on to app teams to need to add their own supporting services to their applications um this it’s a big thing to
33:00navigate and people who do it it needs to be their whole job not something they do to like help support their
33:06application so in terms of what a platform is to me I think it’s a it’s a
33:12foundation of like tools supporting services uh self-service apis uh
33:18knowledge that um app teams can then lean on maybe it’s it’s probably opinionated but it has the governance
33:25and compliance of the organization can lean on to do the parts of their jobs that are undifferentiated that are
33:32important but undifferentiated from Team to team and so in terms I know Marino you’re talking about like practically
33:39what does that actually mean and because everything is calling itself a platform and what’s the scope of that uh I I hear
33:46your questions under there too but maybe it’s um I just think all that stuff all
33:51that decision shouldn’t be happening with every team in every or it’s not reasonable and then I wanted to speak a
33:58little bit to interfaces I’ve been in the in the chat I’m being uh coached to
34:03talk about I keynoted platform engineering day and our talk was called
34:09sometimes lipstick is exactly what a pig needs and and in our talk we basically
34:15spoiler alerts the pig is an API and the lipstick are all the different
34:21interfaces so the idea is you should be building apis they the building blocks
34:27of your system they’re reusable and then the actual interface part you build that
34:32based on what your user needs who’s going to use that and it’s not it’s not a one like you have your API and then
34:39you can also you could do a CLI for one group of users you could give it a portal for another group of users it
34:45doesn’t have to be only one thing I think that’s everything but that’s what I have to say about all that thank you
34:50for listening amazing well thanks for sharing uh with near and everyone else
34:56um even though there were of stuff around AI uh during the Keynotes I
35:01didn’t see much on security and um funny thing is that
35:07there are a lot of security talks though so security still like is you know obviously you
35:14know pretty important topic so I was want to hear what you all thought I have
35:19a question I’ve been wondering actually with Duffy’s comments about wasm
35:25adoption I’ve um I’ve been wondering do you do companies adopt security BEC
35:31like more secure practices because they want to be more secure or do they because some government organization
35:37comes out and tells them they have to do this thing what’s more common yeah it’s
35:43a great question and it in my opinion it is frequently that like it depends on the incentive right so for the most part
35:49companies for the you know that are like newer in the space or like a newer a newer company kind of exploring the
35:55space they may not consider security to be as a high as high a priority like they might think about doing like field
36:02validation they might be able to do like secure software practices and those sorts of things but when it comes to their infrastructure like that’s a
36:08problem that they’re willing to kind of let the cloud solve without having to actually be very involved in in
36:14themselves but when they get further into it and they start using holding personal information and gdpr comes
36:19along and those sorts of things then obviously they’re incentivized differently and that’s where yeah they’re like we have to do this or uh
36:27somebody’s going to make make somebody’s going to take a bunch of the money we earned away right like we don’t want that right you’re saying mostly people
36:34don’t choose to do it there’s just a point where they’re being made to do it yeah that was my suspicion I also think
36:41that like Bridges a little bit back to the topic of platforms again because like often platform teams have the
36:47really the task to keep the components their developers or the app developers use up to date and obviously keeping
36:54your kubernetes cluster with all the like half year releases and all the new packages that constantly um have new
37:01updates often really critical security updates up to date is really something we see um a lot of companies still
37:07struggle with and it’s really really important to to also keep that in mind because even if a security um
37:14vulnerability is already fixed Upstream um it still takes a long time until it’s really get deployed to all the Clusters
37:21and really a company can safely say okay we’re not vulnerable anymore and I think
37:27we also see a lot of improvement improvements in especially this space um over the next years because kubernetes
37:33is still evolving so fast and updates are constantly there and we need to make sure these also get
37:41applied yeah I think I can add to that in the end a platform also helps to unify things again although you want to
37:47give all the teams the choices uh they can do whatever they want um still you bring some more structure into the chaos
37:54I would say um there was at the app developer also something related to communication channels and how you build
38:00a zero trust uh communication with Dappa basically as a as an outline and I think
38:06then this relates well to platforms again um how they can help you with that and another thing I think they also do
38:12besides the security aspect is also coming to observability because a lot of them also help you building up your
38:19observability stack um if you if you use um a component like Dappa I’m mentioning
38:25Dappa here because I’ve played around with it sorry if that’s too much here but um it helps you to get traces
38:31already so you you have a starting point to set up observability as well and I think that’s uh that’s really
38:42great yeah it’s pretty I mean adri oh Adriana you’re on
38:48mute sorry about that um yeah my my take with regards to uh security is is that
38:53there’s still like such a disconnect between um the folks uh like the security teams and then uh developers
39:00where there’s like that that constant fight where either there’s like policies implemented that completely alienate
39:07developers and then developer and you know we recognize the need for security
39:13but we also don’t want to go through like this long protracted process of
39:18making sure that our applications are secure so and I think this is where like platform engineering can come in to help
39:25where we have like self-service um security uh policies but I feel like
39:31that Gap still hasn’t been bridged yet um and I I think we see some startups coming on the scene that that are
39:37helping to bridge that Gap but I I think that’s still a thing that um that is
39:42lacking and and you know it it in a lot of ways prevents us from you know
39:48shifting left on security as we should and then it becomes this this afterthought of like oh crap I got to do
39:54this ain’t got time before we go live right so and you know it becomes
40:02problematic I agree I think I think um it’s been an interesting thing watching
40:07security kind of evolve over the years like when I joined when I joined coros I joined coros because it was a very
40:14forward a security forward company and what they were doing with work like mcgarrett work with folks like mcgarrett
40:20like basically coming up with ways to ensure Security in an operating system at boot time all the way through and
40:26what I learned in that experience was that like the audience was not ready at all to hear anything about security so
40:33like we would go and talk about security with customers and like out in the field and they would like it would fall on
40:38deaf ears it was not a concern that they had right but now what I see happening which is actually more interesting to me
40:44is that like in the last couple of years like the last few Cycles here security actually because of a lot of the
40:49mandates because of a lot of the a lot of the regulations both in the US and in Europe there’s a lot more of this
40:55happening earlier in the cycle I’m getting asked uh questions that I wouldn’t expect someone to ask me about
41:02a project until it was like three or four years old I’m getting those questions much earlier in the cycle
41:07because people are realizing yeah you know as much as I don’t want to think about it it’s a thing that I absolutely have to think about very early much
41:13earlier in the cycle than I had to before so I would say that like a lot of
41:19the secure best practices a lot of things like um a lot of the things that people are thinking about it from the
41:24platform engineering perspective are happening a lot earlier now and are considered to be table staks than they
41:30were before if they they were like two three years ago that would not have been the
41:37case I feel like when people are starting they’re like so focused on building bigger better faster so fast
41:45and then at some point they’re like oh we made something cool we need to protect it and uh and also I imagine
41:50once you’ve been burned once by trying to BU protect retrospectively then like then you’re careful to do it moving
41:56forward yeah good points I think I think I think
42:02enough people have been bured that it’s happening a little retrospective it’s happening earlier more often
42:09now yep um yeah good good good talk conversation loving this uh disc
42:15discussion here we have uh lot of people who has joined us um let’s talk a bit more about developer experience right um
42:23so a lot of companies you know investing in in developer experience
42:28so anyone who would like to jump in and uh share their thoughts maybe Andrew or
42:35someone else anyone yeah I mean I’m always happy to
42:40jump in I I remember um my first my first experience uh at any kind of
42:46conference in the Linux space was in LA or in Pasadena last March um and I
42:53remember going and having a conversation I can’t remember the company um and and uh and they we were talking and and they
43:00were saying like oh what are you doing I said oh we’re a feature Flag Company and they said oh there’s another Fe big feature Flag Company um what’s different
43:06about you um and I said oh we’re really focused on developer experience he’s like all right just Mo move on like
43:12because everybody’s everybody’s having this conversation about about developer experience like what are you actually doing differently um and I feel as
43:19though um one of the things that kind of gets forgotten about so often when
43:25people are building up this DX is like building people First Technology like so much of what we do um in like the dayto
43:32day is focused around these high technical Concepts and we’re trying to get people using our platforms we want to all have jobs um but like starting
43:39with the relationship first between like you and the developer and then between you and the software I love that
43:45Marino’s laughing about that it was I was like all right apparently I need to be careful I need to be careful with what I say at these events um but like I
43:52find that people are starting to get that finally and I’m seeing like a lot more of the the platforms that I’m
43:57seeing that are saying like we’re really invested in DX like they’re taking time they’re despite the fact that like the
44:03devil space is kind of in a contraction phase right now the ones that are not Contracting or the ones that are are
44:09keeping around the people that are really really good at building relationships I think if you look at even this group here right I mean some
44:15of us have met some of us haven’t but like it’s all focused on like connecting with each other and building these relationships internally within devil
44:22and I think we’re bringing that the folks that are still in this space are doing a really good job at bringing that to like the platform level building out
44:28communities first where people really want to learn and grow and connect and then the technology is sort of a an
44:34add-on to that um and so like yeah starting to see that in a lot more of the interactions that I’m having and
44:39seeing at at the platforms that are focused on DX um and I think Andrew you said two
44:48two really good points like building a community and developer experience and also from my experience like
44:54documentation is a really crucial part of building a community because most of our products are open source most of our
45:01products have like a community behind us that support us like we either slack Channel or or another Discord server and
45:09like bringing up this this new contributors giving them a documentation um which they can work on this is like
45:16something was I think really underrated um in a lot of in a lot of context in a
45:22lot of situations before but I think especially kubernetes and and a lot of the applications that run on it have
45:28really understand that documentation helps the community and a community obviously creates a better product
45:34especially in the kubernetes ecosystem and so yeah never should forget documentation for developer
45:44experience it’s interesting when thinking about like the the deex but the
45:49problem that that um deex is trying to solve and the problem that like open source in general is trying to solve I
45:54mean like they overlap for sure like so in diagram I feel like these these two circles are overlapped but like how each
46:01of them addresses the problem is is pretty fascinating like you know from when is you’re actually trying to go after the people and those people you
46:08know you’re trying to go after the people and like bring them in and make them feel welcome and make them feel like they can contribute and that they are able to do things and on the open
46:14source side we’re actually just trying to make sure that like perhaps the project isn’t isn’t owned by just one
46:19company that you feel like the the project actually has the ability to have you know have a long a long-term life
46:26cycle that when you you start relying on something like kubernetes you’re not waiting for some big company to pull the
46:31rug out from underneath you right like you’re you want that to exist and it’s an interesting
46:39overlap I imagine the people talking about developer experience especially at cubec con aren’t actual
46:47developers I mean there is appdev conon but those those abds if they’re in the cubec con space are probably pretty used
46:54to using kubernetes on like Embrace that part of their uh their
47:03workflow yeah and uh speaking of like tools and stuff um obviously ebpf I saw
47:09a lot of companies um utilizing ebpf there were a lot of monitoring tools as well um utilizing ebpf which was nice to
47:17see um one quick thing before I forget is it was nice to see how some vendors were now also educating at their boots
47:25so like MH lot of sessions were happening and and stuff like that rather than selling
47:31people um just which is all good and and stuff and all fairness but I it was just nice to see I had a lot of sessions that
47:38ISO in Booth um as well um but but yeah
47:43and uh I think Dapper was in the conversation like as well throughout the event uh Nell you had a you had a talk I
47:51think um no no not you um I saw a tweet about a talk by it was um Alice was it
47:59Alice yeah yeah could be um yeah it was about um it was actually a more broader
48:05topic causality so which tools bring causality to the Forefront in the systems and I talked about tracing in
48:12general and also the idea to use call graphs and service measures but one part was definitely Dapper because Dapper
48:18recently into our me or sorry introduced workflows so you can build workflows in
48:24your application and that maintains mainly the state for you and um you build the workflow and code that’s quite
48:30neat I think and really plays along the whole developer experience you have with Dapper um maybe should like yeah mention
48:38that Dapper is not only the workflows but also building um apis for you so you can easily exchange for example a
48:45message broker or anything else um which makes it nice for developers you don’t have to learn a specific API for Kafka
48:51or rabbit mq you just use um the Dapper API and the rest is handled for
49:04you uh Marino you uh you want to go ahead and thanks for sharing Nell so it’s interesting you know what
49:12we’re seeing with and I’m coming from a networking background right or a networking lens I should say and it’s
49:18really interesting to see where some of these Technologies are going specifically psyllium and even Dapper
49:24and they’re addressing some key areas in the the network stack that a service mesh tried to do and it’s funny because
49:32a service mesh was great up until it wasn’t and it created a level of complexity and when you start to see
49:38what psyllium and potentially maybe other cnis in the future is doing by creating that mesh-like functionality
49:44that removes the additional complexity layer but then when you want to allow developers to have access into ways they
49:52can build their workflows kind of what Nila was just talking about Dapper creates or completes that stack so I’m
49:59bringing this up because I was in a car ride home or back to the hotel with with maritzio after hanging out with Nila and
50:06we were just talking about this we were chatting about you know what does what does the right networking stack look
50:11like and I proposed a Model A long time ago uh which was about the distributed
50:16open network model that could like interchangeably pick whatever pieces you
50:21wanted whether it was in Cloud native or not but as we started to draw it out
50:27we began to realize that service mesh didn’t really have a place anymore and
50:33it was because Dapper sidecar functionality was doing a lot of that heavy lifting at service mesh wood and
50:39I’m saying this because not not to like you know downplay what a service mesh is and how capable it is but when you start
50:46to look at the evolution of of a platform and the consolidation of tooling you’re not going to find many
50:51tools out there and it’s probably going to consolidate into things like pelium and dapper
51:03it’s an interesting take thanks for sharing Marino and we could go on and on but we have just to be ready of
51:08everyone’s time less than 10 minutes left and uh some nice Community friends joining in as well uh going to wrap it
51:16up I’m going to ask you about uh but before I forget I want to give a huge shout out to the inclusion team also at
51:22cucon the guy who was doing sign languages so nice was it was like really
51:28really nice to see him um as well and U and other people um but no it was it was
51:34really good and uh also the shout out to the uh de and hard of hearing group uh
51:40uh as well uh they doing some nice things uh met some nice people who were
51:46who were like you know uh from these uh these groups and it was nice to see them enjoy enjoy the event um my my question
51:54is uh what are you looking forward to in the in the next Cube corner for the future um again we’ll go in the same
52:00order as we see on on the screen maybe definitely you can go first yeah so I mean I’m look I’m just
52:07looking forward to to seeing how like the the tension between Ai and web
52:12assembly evolves and I’m interested in seeing like how the platforms continue to evolve I will say one cucon I’m
52:18really looking forward to is actually cucon India because I feel like the accessibility is going to make that just
52:24such an amazing conference that there’s been so many people who just never leave India because of visas and all of the
52:30other governmental stuff nothing to do with whether they want to but more like whether they can and so bringing a cubec
52:36con to them I think will be just amazing so I’m really looking forward to being at that one in
52:44December yeah I think topicwise I’m interesting more of those topics bringing the um app developer experience
52:51uh to kubernetes like the inner and outer development Loop which we saw this cubec cor started and I think there’s
52:57way more to catch up uh one thing I’m looking forward in Europe actually is CBE train again so we had this
53:03initiative to go by train to cucon and I’m happy that we kicked this off finally because we need more train rides
53:10and flights especially in Europe so um that’s something I’m looking forward
53:17to um for me I’m just looking forward to uh continuing to have more conversations
53:24like more interesting conversations with interesting people um meeting new people along the way um one thing that I want
53:31to give a shout out to that happened in the last two cubec cons was uh we had the otel observatory which is um a booth
53:38that was like where a bunch of the otel folks congregated and um met with um
53:44Hotel practitioners and users Etc and this time around we had a chance to give a demo of the open Telemetry demo um
53:53which is an app that’s based on the uh the Google hipster Shop app that shows
53:58like how you can in instrument a complex uh microservices app with with open Telemetry so having um you know having
54:06more of that um and and it’s I I hope to see more of the cloud native part um
54:12sort of spring up as well besides you know just the cube con part um because
54:18it is cubec Con and Cloud native con and it’s been like really cool to see more of the cloud native aspects of it um
54:24Sprout out more in the last little while amazing I’m going to go a totally
54:30different direction just because I love seeing all the exhibitor boo that are there and the the leveling up of like
54:36the interaction that are there um I won’t say that that sort of our booth uh that I’ve delivered is Trends Setters
54:42but last time we had a a there was a couple claw machines a lot more this time this time we had a dice tower you could roll in um and there’s there like
54:49and we weren’t even the most exciting of the things that were in there so I think like the engagement strategies that a lot of the companies are using I’m
54:55really looking forward to seeing that um and also I’m interested to see um kind of that original the OG cubec con
55:02energy at Cube huddle um shout out to cube huddle that’s happening in Toronto in uh what like a month um and I feel
55:09like that’s gonna have kind of that original energy that that Marino was talking about earlier with like smaller numbers able to have conversations so um
55:17I think that’s going to be exciting so now I’ve said it here Marino so I have to
55:22come uh what I’m looking forward to at the next gcon first first and foremost friends always friends I have lovely
55:29friends here in Austin Texas but I don’t have friends I can talk about Cloud stuff with I feel like I live a double
55:36life and so I need my cloud friends and my cloud fix by the time it comes around I’m I’m I need it and so that’s for sure
55:43and then what I also expect to see it’s more like consolidation of tools like we
55:48um you briefly mentioned spin Cube which I believe is a consolidation of lots of smaller tools that work well with wasum
55:55and work well to together and similarly I’ve heard of the backstack which is like backstage Argo CD crossplaying and
56:02kerno working well together I think um tools are starting to figure out like you what goes well with other ones we’re
56:09making friends and it’s and it’s translating into messaging and I think it’s really interesting to see Whitney
56:16we we can talk about stuff other than Cloud yeah but I have that at home I
56:21don’t need that I mean we can I’m happy to do it go
56:27I’m actually hoping that there is going to be a real Sig Boba event unlike what we saw that was like a Sig smoothie
56:35where is this what are these smoothies uh what are you trying to disguise here anyways what I actually do hope though
56:41is I hope the cncf is listening to this I hope they deemphasize coupon and spend
56:47more time on the Colo days you know expand them out that’s where the magic is coupon is great we get to see a lot
56:54of it but you know coupon does doesn’t need to be three days maybe two days and the other events need more time because
57:00there are a lot of better stories to tell that come out of some of these applications that right on top of
57:06kubernetes so I’m hoping that that happens um but I also expect to see more of the platform conversation and there’s
57:14going to be a clearer messaging you know there’s a lot of confusion around what a platform is and that’s just my opinion
57:20but I do see there there’s going to be a lot more clear messaging overall in the next
57:25cubec con and some of the players that did claim to say that they’ve got a platform probably will backtrack because
57:30they [Music] don’t I think what I’m looking for for
57:36the next Cube conon I mean at this Cube con we have just been ATT tendis glass is like a smaller open source project we
57:41don’t have our own Booth yet and but there are still like people users hey are you from class Cube I used you I saw
57:48your I saw your launch post and I really loved you and looking forward to build like feature XY set and oh super nice
57:54you like like talk about you probably really understand what you why you chose class Cube and I’m really looking
58:01forward the next Cube con that class Cube finally has a boo and to interact U with a lot more users and this is this
58:09is what I’m what we are most looking forward to and yeah hopefully see you all in person yeah this would be would
58:15be great amazing thanks for sharing everyone I am looking forward to uh Cube
58:22corn India because if you couldn’t tell I’m Indian so [Laughter]
58:30whitne stuff no okay uh no cucon Deli would be
58:35nice because uh really a lot of contributors in the Cuban ecosystem from India and um yeah very very excited for
58:44it and uh also Cloud rejects which was a good conference uh this time um if you
58:49don’t know already know people who don’t get into cucon can submit to Cloud rejects they can speak over there if
58:55they get accepted and uh I I I I want to say that probably
59:00we might have the best food cuon has had in cuon India because Indians take food
59:06very seriously in the Indian vendors and everyone so [Music]
59:13um I hope so uh but but let’s see the food is I think my only my only
59:19complaint other than that I was I’m vegetarian so but uh but yeah I think um
59:25CN India and uh also Tech F I’m looking forward to sustainability efforts by
59:31people um running the infrastructures and gpus obviously it’s um it’s not good for the
59:37environment as as much so there was some nice there was nice talk by Mark from Deep green uh how they run Cloud gpus um
59:47on 100% renewable energy that was cool that’s nice to see um but
59:53yeah and there’s also this one new thing C Jam I don’t know if you anyone saw it
59:58Cube Jam was like a music music uh recording session which was nice so it’s
1:00:04it’s nice to see companies brainstorming ideas you know
1:00:09to yeah you know bring people together that that was it any anyone else has any
1:00:15final thoughts before we wrap this up I’ll definitely second your C out to to Cloud dative Rejects and one of the
1:00:21things that was brought up earlier was like sometimes at cucon it’s just so busy that you don’t feel like you have
1:00:26time to sit down and talk to people and Cloud dative rejects is a great way to scratch that itch because you actually
1:00:32it’s just going to be fewer people because not everybody can fly in early and you’re GNA actually have some time to sit down and chat with folks the big
1:00:39plus one on
1:00:45that all right cool well thanks for joining everyone if you want to connect with the speakers I will leave the links
1:00:52to their X Handles in the description below you can check out their companies what they do and um see you in Salt Lake
1:01:01City and this Hong Kong before that and then India so yeah see you by bye
1:01:10everybody
